July 14, 2011 at 3:49 am #83523
Not sure yet if I’ll be taking the 421 to OSH or not (long story), but if I do…
Does anyone have experience parking a 421 in the North 40? Any issues? Obviously, if the weather is like last year (swamp) I’m going to the FBO, but my preference would be to park in the grass and pitch my tent with my friends if the grass is accommodating.
On landing, do you just slow down and pull into the grass like you would in a 210 or any other single?
Prop clearance is my major concern, but honestly I think I have a lot more clearance than many singles (Mooneys, for example), and I don’t see prop strikes being a major issue on a 421.
RobertJuly 14, 2011 at 12:06 pm #94866cochraneParticipant
There have been a number of twin Cessnas parked in the grass at OSH in the past so there are probably no issues doing it. You can park over at Basler and pitch a tent in the grassy area back by their fence unless you prefer the North 40. You might look at your insurance policy with regard to grass operations, however.July 14, 2011 at 12:17 pm #94867
Robert, I’ve parked my 421 on the grass at OSH twice with no problems. Would have parked there a third time last year but torrential rains prevented most all parking in the North 40. In a normal year, if you look around, you’ll see airplanes a lot bigger than 421’s on the grass.
If there are really heavy rains, sometimes the aircraft wheels will sink enough in the ground to making taxing out a problem. On the advice of others, I take 3 sections of plywood to roll the airplane onto if heavy rains are forecast – but I’ve never had to use them. I suspect in a pinch one of the FBO’s could pull the airplane out if necessary.
See you OSH! I’ll be there from Sunday through Friday.July 14, 2011 at 1:28 pm #94868
Thanks guys – That’s what I expected but wanted to defer to experience.
That being the case, I’ll be in the North 40 – Look for the large (as in professionally built) tent housing the rowdy pilots and lots of adult beverages. Feel free to come by, or even to camp with us (we do dinner every night – It’s a pretty sweet setup)!
Hopefully I’ll be there in my 421 (N421JT), but the backup plane is a Bonanza…
RobertJuly 15, 2011 at 12:38 pm #94869
Ive only ever flown into ATW or FLD as I’ve been a little wary of the traffic ard OSH. I’m thinking about actually doing OSH this year. Do you guys fly in VFR using the 135kts at 2300 or Turbine/Warbird route or IFR slot?July 15, 2011 at 1:11 pm #94870quote SAINSBURY:
I fly in VFR over Fisk with the little guys but at 2300 an 135. The problem is that eventually you have to descend to pattern altitude and get in line with the slower traffic. I do not slow below 110 (blue line for me). If spacing is a problem I go around. Remember, no S-turning is allowed. The accidents that happen at OSH are usually not mid air’s but airplanes getting too slow. I tell my passengers there’s a 50% chance of a go around on any approach so we are all prepared, although over the years I usually get in first try.July 16, 2011 at 6:18 pm #94875rwelshParticipant
I used to mix it up with the small guys at Fisk, but now I always file IFR, and you then have to use STMP reservations. 72 hours before, get on the computer and get your time or close to it. No hassles and you taxi right into Basler.July 17, 2011 at 7:46 pm #94877quote RWELSH:
FYI, a bunch of us ended up at Orion last year and were VERY well treated. In fact, Bassler was a royal pain last year while Orion laid out the welcome mat under extremely trying circumstances.
I’ve done just about every arrival into OSH (including warbird and the super secret “prison arrival”) and they are all fun. I’ll be doing the RIPON high arrival this year since I’ll be attempting to come in with a bunch of slow movers… Should be interesting trying to time my entry to FISKE at the tail end of my other friends who will be on the low & slow arrival, but it will all work out.
P.S. Look for the large tent near the new showers (you won’t be able to miss it) – Come on by for a cold adult beverage!July 17, 2011 at 9:11 pm #94878quote RCJOHNSON:
Robert, I’ll be by for sure. Also (and to everyone who’ll be there) remember you are invited to join Tony, me and Jerry Temple at the Vintage Cafe on Tuesday at 5 PM for a get together as well. Drinks and dinner are on your own, but we’ll provide free conversation 😀 If you want to drop by, let me know. We have room for 20 total and have a few spots left.
Finally, don’t miss our first ever “Owning a Twin Cessna” Forum at 8:30 AM on Wednesday in Forum Pavilion #2 GAMA.July 18, 2011 at 5:17 am #94879rwelshParticipant
Bob, my son and I will be there Tuesday night.
Dick WelshJuly 24, 2011 at 11:45 pm #94886
N421GM will be there Tuesday morning. Plan is to also be there Wednesday. We are going to leave each evening to sleep at my lake home about 150NM to KRZN. We are parking at the FBO. Where will I find you or our tribe on Tuesday morning?
TimAugust 8, 2011 at 5:32 pm #94907quote RCJOHNSON:
The stars aligned and I was able to bring my 421 to OSH this year. I parked in the North 40 and all worked well, but I did learn a few lessons that I want to pass along:
1) Bring 2×2 wood squares for the wheels to sit on. I parked, put the squares behind the wheels, then had some friends help me push the airplane onto the squares. I think this helped getting out.
2) Big lesson: If it’s wet when you are trying to depart, ASK TO CROSS THE RUNWAY. I made a mistake and taxied to the FBO (to get gas – see below) via the grass/mud taxiway and it was a mess. Several times the cones to mark the taxiway were close enough together that I was scared I was going to have a prop strike. I also had to use differential power a few times to get out of a ground slide. When I got to Bassler I had to pick mud off of my brakes & gear and I could see that my wheels had gone 1/2 way into the mud a couple of times. Yuck.
The next time I will call ground from the North 40 and ask for a taxi across the runway to the north taxiway on 9/27. I spoke with someone who did this and said it was no problem as long as the field wasn’t too busy.
That being said, if the grass is dry and there’s no mud, taxing on the grass shouldn’t be an issue for a 421.
3) Usually I get fuel from the truck in the North 40. The day I departed (Thursday) the trucks were not running due to the ground saturation and I was told to taxi over to Bassler to get fuel. I was a little miffed about this, but it was probably the best thing that happened. I’m not sure I would have been able to taxi with an extra 1,000lbs of fuel on board.
The lesson here is to leave the plane with limited fuel and either depart and get get somewhere enroute or taxi to the FBO and gas up if you are concerned about taxiing on the grass. I was heading to upstate NY so I wanted full tanks, and it all worked out well, but lesson learned.
4) Avoid departing IFR if at all possible. I usually depart VFR and grab a clearance somewhere downrange, but the weather was cruddy in the morning and I had an IFR departure slot. Long story short, but when 18/36 shut down due to the F16 incident I had to wait 2+ hours for an engine start, then once I got started it was another hour in the conga line waiting to depart. Once I did the flight was smooth, but of course it was VFR by then!
All in all a great trip and I’m glad I was able to bring the 421 into OSH!
P.S. The RIPON/FISKE “high” arrival worked just fine. I ended up landing on 18R which I’ve never done before and it’s a pretty tight turn from base to final, but nothing too bad.August 9, 2011 at 1:15 am #94909quote RCJOHNSON:
Robert, I concur. This is my third time parking in the North 40 with my 421 and it was the wettest (not counting last year when it was so wet there was no North 40 parking). I landed on 36R and had to taxi the entire length of 9-27 on the grass taxiway to my parking spot. Like you, there was some minor slipping and sliding that I hadn’t experienced before. I had no problem getting out of my parking spot but like you I taxied over to Orion to fuel up and had my passengers meet me over there. That worked out well.
I learned several years ago not to try to depart IFR unless it is really IFR. If it’s marginal VFR, there will be long delays. On the other hand, arriving IFR is a little easier than the VFR arrival. I kept my IFR clearance all the way to touchdown this year and it was really simple. I had a long straight in approach to 36R. A Mooney on the VFR arrival turned final in front of me but the controller sent him around.
I really enjoy camping with my airplane, but next year I’m going to make sure the ground is good and dry. If not, I’ll park at the FBO and hope I can pitch my tent on the North 40.
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