January 21, 2012 at 5:08 pm #83669
I just purchased a 1979 cessna 421. 4200 hours total time,left engine has 1550 hours right engine has 1640 hours . The right engine is at ram for rebuild the left engine I would like to fly another year or two before rebuild. The left engine cylinder compressions were all in the high 60to low 70s My mechanic rebuilt one cylinder.My question is, will I be able to fly this plane for a 100 to 150 hours before The left engine goes in for ram ? A crystal ball may be required to answer this question but any advise will be helpful in making my decision. Never having flown this airpane I am hoping all else is good. I am attending flight in tro in FLORIDA AND ONCE ABLE TO FLY THIS AIRCRAFT IT WILL BE USED TO COMMUTE from Oklahoma to florida and as else required in my business. Your input is greatly appreciated.January 21, 2012 at 6:43 pm #95434pmcnameeParticipant
Is this your first C-421?
The engines will take a beating while you learn how to operate the airplane properly.
My suggestion is to use up what little time you have left on the engines practicing engine out and other non-normal procedures that are not kind to the engines. Find a good experienced Cessna 421 instructor to go up and wring you and the airplane out. I’m thinking at least 15 hours of local training with 5-6 simulated emergencies per hour. You don’t want to have to do this on new engines.
How you operate the airplane determines how long it lasts and how expensive it is. The logbooks and the fancy digital gauges just give you a warm fuzzy feeling.
Have a Factory engine on order when you start flying the airplane, you won’t be sorry.
Your going to really enjoy your new ride.
PatJanuary 21, 2012 at 6:49 pm #95435
IMO, If your engine has good compressions, isn’t poring oil everywhere, and you change the oil regularly with analysis I would keep flying it. My understanding of the GTSIO (and other Continental) engine’s weak points are the cylinders and the starter adapter. The bottoms usually are quite strong. Overhauling at TBO is more of your comfort level.January 22, 2012 at 3:30 am #95436
Pat and Sgerber t hank both for your helpful advice. I did have the starter gear removed on the left engine it was good.I will use the left engine for practice since it is to be replaced. I have no experience in flying a 421 c hope an old dog can acquire the skills to fly a 421. My previous airplane was a c55 Baron which I owned for 16 years. Thanks again. gthornton .January 22, 2012 at 4:27 pm #95437
My 421c is in need of paint and interior what may i expect to pay for this on an average ?I live in Oklahoma but would take plane where shop is located . I know if I have to ask the price of something for the plane I can’t afford it.January 22, 2012 at 5:08 pm #95439
First, you’ll find flying a twin Cessna to be fairly easy. It’s a docile, stable airplane. As far as paint goes, you can spend as little as 12k and as much as 30k for a paint job, but overall 20k should get you a quality job. Interiors can run the same. A good leather and wool carpet interior should run 18-20k. I’ve heard of some interiors costing 40k, but I think that is high. If you need to redo the cabinets that will be extra. The modern way people are redoing interiors and the way I’ll do mine next time is to use fabric on the side panels like you see in jets, a good wool carpet with serged edging, and tinting the passenger windows. Also, I prefer a soft leatherette headliner and am not fond of covering the plastic. You may want to plan the redo when the aircraft is down for an engine, it will take about 6 weeks. Good luck.January 22, 2012 at 7:37 pm #95440
I suggest flying it a bit and sorting out the things that need to be done before starting into a complete overhaul of engines, paint, interior. What is the condition of the panel? boots? heated windshield? Which autopilot? 60’s compressions on a Continental engine is not bad. I would suggest inspecting lifters/cam, boroscope, and oil analysis from Blackstone.
How recently has the plane been flying before you purchased it? Who did the last annual and pre-buy?
EricJanuary 22, 2012 at 9:33 pm #95448
Eric, the plane has been flown to recent. The owner I purchased from had been flying it 0n 300 400 mile trips. The air plane was flown to okla for the prebuy. On the way down it used 3 to 4 quarts of oil.Since the engine had 1620 hours we elected to put a rebuilt Ram on the right side. We purchased the air craft for a reasonable price allowing for the engine and other prebuy items found . THE PANEL HAS 530 430 340 330 320 800AP ALL SEEM TO WORK. t HE PAINT AND INTERIOR CAN WAit untill 2nd engine is replaced if need be however I hope to get another year or two out of left engine.It is going to have oil evauations at each change. What else am I not seeing? T hanks for all the info I am receiI feel like I already got my moneys worth from joining this org. gthorntonJanuary 23, 2012 at 4:18 am #95453
3-4 qts per engine or total? How many qts per hr? Sounds like a good deal, it’s good that they have been flying it consistently. Do you have any type of engine monitor? I would do this before messing with the paint or interior as it can help protect your investment.
Any idea how they operated it? Have you checked flightaware, etc.
Welcome to the 421 club! There have been a number of new owners in the last 6 months, myself included.
EricJanuary 23, 2012 at 1:35 pm #95457
Eric, that was 3to4 quarts on the left engine. THE PANEL HAS A iNSIGHT gEM 1200 ALL CYLINDER ANALYZER . i DID NOT MENTION BUT WHILE WAITING FOR Ram I had spoilers installed. I met the pilot who flew the plane for 3.5 years he was a schooled pro pilot. I think it says a lot for his skills that he placed 600 hours on the a/c with our replacing no more than 1 cylinder. My mechanic has found very few squaks thus far. gthorntonJanuary 24, 2012 at 2:13 am #95463quote GTHORNTON:
Just got some early info but hopefully sometime this spring you will be able to upgrade that Gem 1200 to a http://www.insightavionics.com G4 Twin for about $6,000. This would be a great setup.
How long was the flight? How much oil was in there to begin with? I find ~ 9-10 is the sweet spot.
I had a chance to meet the former hired pilot of my plane and also one of the maint shops was kind enough to hand over more extensive records of what was done line by line, how much it costs and how many hrs billed.
Which spoilers did you do? I thought I would not need them since the gear speed is so high, but have decided that they would be handy on occasion. 🙂
EricJanuary 24, 2012 at 2:51 am #95466
I believe the trip from VA to Okla took 5 hours. The oil from the level at which the trip started to OK the pilot said he used the 4 quarts. He did not mention what the starting level was.
the spoilers were called Power Pack . Wow! The G-4 looks like it provides plenty of info.
Eric tell me about your plane. How did you locate it? Is this your first 421? What equipment do you have? , This was my 3rd plane to buy but he the most expensive. Hope I did not buy the pig in a poke. thanks for your in put gthorntonJanuary 25, 2012 at 3:08 am #95468quote GTHORNTON:
That’s a fair amount of oil for a 5 hr trip. It sort of depends where it left the plane – belly or exhaust.
The G4 Twin will be great for the twin cessna’s as it is a good replacement in the stock EGT position. The JPI 960 is nice, but twice as expensive and a bigger panel upgrade. The G3 had some issues on delivery for some customers. I hope the G4 is smoother. Those that have got the G3 working right seem happy with it. The larger G4 will make it much easier to see.
This is my third plane and first 421. I have ~mid-time engines, a 530, and mostly stock otherwise. Family and friends love it, We have flown about 70 hrs since June. Have you completed your ME rating + any required transition training? Have you been to one of the sim facilities like RTC or simcom? If your plane had been flying regularly prior to you buying it that’s a great sign.
EricJanuary 25, 2012 at 5:44 pm #95469
Eric. I have about 900hrs multi time with a multi rating. 80 hours in a Dutchess and the rest in a C 55 Baron. The Baron had all the Garmin up grades . I don,t know how this will help or not to learn the c 421. I will attend the Sim com. course this March.My concern is my plane may not be ready for me to spend time in to get use to the systems prior to SimCom traing. Do you see this as a concern? Where do you keep your plane what area of the country? What did you fly prior to the 421? How did you experience the transitional learning curve? GthorntonJanuary 25, 2012 at 8:04 pm #95470quote GTHORNTON:
I don’t think you’ll have any problems learning to fly the 421.
The systems are more complex than what you have previously flown, but SimCom will do a fair job at teaching them to you. I would suggest that you supplement the SimCom education with a few days at one of the Twin Cessna Systems Seminars – They are well worth the time and money.
Flying wise, it’s an easy airplane. Not quite as responsive as the Bonanza products, but also a lot larger. The hardest part I had was getting the sight picture right on landing – The nose is LONG and it took me a while to get used to it.
I owned a T210 before my 421 and had basically no multi time. I now have around 200 hours since March!
The 421 is an incredibly capably machine, but the maintenance is expensive and ongoing.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.